IVS Forum - The Knees........

Jeep4x4greg

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The Knees........
Mar 29^th, 2010, 1:37pm

Knee pain question.

I generally do not have knee issues.

During the Clinton lake race on the 3rd loop my right knee started realllly hurting (still a little achy now). I have a few theories and I'd like your opinions as to which is more likely....or if there are additional theories that might be worth considering

Theory 1) The impact from all the sudden downhill-to-uphill transitions at a pretty fast pace just pounded my knees. Although I feel adequately hill trained, this course has waaay more ups and downs (transitions) than anything I run normally and my knees just took too much abuse.

Theory 2) Somewhere along the way a muscle tightened up and caused some odd tension on the knee tendons.

Theory 3) The course runs clockwise around a lake and i noticed that the trails have a slightly slope to them generally pointing toward the inside of the loop.....its not 100% of the trail, but perhaps enough over the accumulated distance to cause a problem?

let me know your thoughts....I'd like to train better so that doesn't happen again! owie!

thanks!

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el dirtrunner IVS Ultra Marathoner mmm donuts Posts: 597 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #1 - Mar 29^th, 2010, 2:34pm #2 made worse by #1 but no way #3 lots of rice. is the pain only in one spot or does it travel at all and if yes then where does it go? and before anyone jumps in, if you say it travels to europe or asia I will ignore you
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Jeep4x4greg

IVS Ultra Marathoner

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Re: The Knees........
Reply #2 - Mar 29^th, 2010, 4:06pm

Quote from dirtrunner on Mar 29^th, 2010, 2:34pm:

......is the pain only in one spot or does it travel at all and if yes then where does it go?
and before anyone jumps in, if you say it travels to europe or asia I will ignore you Grin

I'd be thrilled if it traveled far far away to asia or europe! but alas no, it stays firmly in one spot on my knee. front of the knee, just below the centerline of the kneecap...maybe also covering the tendon below the knee.

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Paul_Wilkerson IVS Marathoner Posts: 315 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #3 - Mar 29^th, 2010, 5:46pm Could it have anything to do with the NB 100's? Or a combination of theory 1 and the shoes? I hope that isn't the case as I am thinking of trying them myself, but it is something to consider. Either way, my prescription is 1) more cowbells 2) 5 laps at McNaughton
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el dirtrunner

IVS Ultra Marathoner

mmm donuts

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Re: The Knees........
Reply #4 - Mar 29^th, 2010, 6:58pm

Quote from Paul_Wilkerson on Mar 29^th, 2010, 5:46pm:

Could it have anything to do with the NB 100's? Or a combination of theory 1 and the shoes? I hope that isn't the case as I am thinking of trying them myself, but it is something to consider. Either way, my prescription is
1) more cowbells
2) 5 laps at McNaughton

nah doubt its the shoes.

but the cure. is. perfect. Wink

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Darnyankee IVS Ultra Marathoner Posts: 842 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #5 - Mar 29^th, 2010, 7:29pm well I'd chalk it up to the fact you just ran the furthest fastest you ever have on a terrain you've never run like that on before. Folks there is going to be some pain along the way..my 2 cents... and it's pretty damm obvious you need more cowbell
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Jeep4x4greg IVS Ultra Marathoner "You'll be fiiiiiiine'' Posts: 1279 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #6 - Mar 29^th, 2010, 9:38pm Yep...more cowbell for sure! either way next year I don't want that to happen again.
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숲 오리

IVS Ultra Marathoner

The Original
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Re: The Knees........
Reply #7 - Mar 30^th, 2010, 7:01pm

Quote from Darnyankee on Mar 29^th, 2010, 7:29pm:

Folks there is going to be some pain along the way..my 2 cents...

Did we forget to mention that Greg...? Thought for sure somebody would have mentioned that - sorry! Grin

Adam's right - if you're not hurting afterwards, you probably left out a loop or two... Personally, my quads are finally to the point where I can descend a flight of stairs without whimpering, so I'm good! How are the ankles, Adam? Hope everyone's recovering nicely - I still don't see a few names on the register for McNaughton, you're running out of time guys! You'll be fiiiine!!! Shocked

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el dirtrunner IVS Ultra Marathoner mmm donuts Posts: 597 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #8 - Mar 30^th, 2010, 8:12pm doing fine here, went for a short run an hour ago. it was just fiiiiiiiiiiiiine!
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숲 오리 IVS Ultra Marathoner The Original Mucky Duck Posts: 1351 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #9 - Mar 30^th, 2010, 9:30pm Wunnerful, glad to hear it! I felt like it today but I'm trying to get some landscaping done in the evenings this week so I can steal away for a round of golf on Friday... I will make it out soon, though.
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brn2run IVS Marathoner Win YOUR race. Posts: 393 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #10 - Mar 30^th, 2010, 9:35pm Starting to recover...likewise about the stairs, no longer cursing them. Will head out tomorrow for an easy run.
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Darnyankee IVS Ultra Marathoner Posts: 842 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #11 - Mar 31^st, 2010, 7:15am All good did a nice slow 10. The run just helped remind me I have 2 knees , 2 ankles and they have feelings too!!
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Chris IVS Half Marathoner Running Rules! Posts: 92 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #12 - Mar 31^st, 2010, 7:52am Greg, it is probably just patellar tendonitis. Strenghtening the quad muscles and improving flexibility will help.
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Jeep4x4greg

IVS Ultra Marathoner

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Re: The Knees........
Reply #13 - Mar 31^st, 2010, 8:23am

Quote from Chris on Mar 31^st, 2010, 7:52am:

Greg, it is probably just patellar tendonitis. Strenghtening the quad muscles and improving flexibility will help.

I don't think its tendinitis....it was fairly sudden and now is essentially gone. I've run an other ultra and several marathons with no issues... I'm pretty sure it's not that, though it is in the same area. one more day and it will feel good as new....will give it a few more days on top of that before going for a short run again. I still have some ankle pain where my shoe was rubbing on the scab I have on my achillies.....feels like a bruise. but that's getting better too.

Next up...Illinois Marathon on May 1!!!

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brn2run

IVS Marathoner

Win YOUR race.

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Re: The Knees........
Reply #14 - Mar 31^st, 2010, 8:47pm

Quote from Darnyankee on Mar 31^st, 2010, 7:15am:

All good did a nice slow 10. The run just helped remind me I have 2 knees , 2 ankles and they have feelings too!!

Did an easy 4 1/2 on the roads today, which included a conversation between my knees and me. During the race, my knotted quads helped to mask my knee pain. I think they will heal up just fine though. Happy running everyone!

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Dave Tapp

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Re: The Knees........
Reply #15 - Apr 1^st, 2010, 12:56pm

If you didn't have knee pain before McNaughton, you'll get your share after it. That stretch between the first creek crossing and Heaven's Gate is an orthopedic surgeon's gold mine. One thing I did love about that section was the large rock just before rope hill that I would talk to as I passed by it. "Hey rock, good to see you, see you again in a little bit." Loop 2 "Hey rock, loving this race, see you again in a bit." Loop 3 "Rock, hello. My legs hurt. These hills suck." Loop 4 "Stupid rock, I only have to see you once more you ___________ _____________ _____________." Loop 5 "Why rock, why? I swear I will never do this again."

Yep, me and the rock. Good times. If you see him, say hello from me. He'll know who you're talking about.

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mike siltman

Ex Member

Re: The Knees........
Reply #16 - Apr 1^st, 2010, 1:10pm

Dave, that is only 5 loops..... 5 more to go.

Greg, I think it was the speed, you just need to slow it down a little bit. I finished just a half hour after you and still managed to get 10 in on Monday, 8 mile speed session on tuesday, hill repeats 1 hour on wednesday, and another 8 miles of speed work this morning. Just slow it down a bit with us older folks and you will rebound just fine

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Dave Tapp IVS Ultra Marathoner Stinky Pants or Bust! Posts: 881 Gender:	Re: The Knees........ Reply #17 - Apr 1^st, 2010, 1:12pm After 5 loops, I'd had enough of that rock's backtalk. And don't you mean another 10 loops?!
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mike siltman Ex Member	Re: The Knees........ Reply #18 - Apr 1^st, 2010, 1:28pm yes, I guess that is what I should have said but 15 loops out there was just stupid crazy.
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